DOS BASIC programmer needed

[Ethan Winer]

Folks,

A fellow approached me looking for someone to convert his large multi-module
accounting system written in GWBASIC into something more modern. His
eventual goal is to move the programs to Windows using VB or similar, but at
this point he'll be happy to move it to QuickBASIC or PDS.

I've seen parts of the source code and it's not a mess of spaghetti code.
But it's a large project so the job requires someone who is well organized.
I'm too busy to take on a project of this size, so if anyone here is
interested, email me from my web site www.ethanwiner.com and I'll put you in
touch with him.

--Ethan

[Auric__]

Post by Ethan Winer
Folks,
A fellow approached me looking for someone to convert his large
multi-module accounting system written in GWBASIC into something more
modern. His eventual goal is to move the programs to Windows using VB or
similar, but at this point he'll be happy to move it to QuickBASIC or
PDS.
I've seen parts of the source code and it's not a mess of spaghetti
code. But it's a large project so the job requires someone who is well
organized. I'm too busy to take on a project of this size, so if anyone
here is interested, email me from my web site www.ethanwiner.com and
I'll put you in touch with him.

Any idea *how* large is it? (The whole thing.)

[Ethan Winer]

Post by Auric__
Any idea *how* large is it? (The whole thing.)

About 400 program files. So it's pretty big!

--Ethan

[Auric__]

Post by Ethan Winer

Post by Auric__
Any idea *how* large is it? (The whole thing.)

About 400 program files. So it's pretty big!

Holy crap! That beats the biggest GW program I ever saw by... well, a lot!

Anybody actually take you up on this?

[Michael Mattias]

Post by Auric__

Post by Ethan Winer

Post by Auric__
Any idea *how* large is it? (The whole thing.)

About 400 program files. So it's pretty big!

Holy crap! That beats the biggest GW program I ever saw by... well, a lot!

I've seen several GW-BASIC applications that large before.

Remember, you had to have a lot of program files, because you only had 32
Kb of memory to work with.... and that 32Kb had to support both CODE AND
DATA COMBINED.

Many CHAINs to other program files were required to actually do anything
productive working within that constraint. A complete accounting package?
Four hundred total program files does not sound unreasonable at all.

(Sheesh. Kids. They think we were all born with a silver spoon in our mouth
and 2 gigabytes of RAM at our fingertips).

(To answer your next question, which is "How exactly did you write all that
good stuff with those kinds of limitations?" Occam's Razor to the rescue:
the simplest answer tends to be the correct answer: We were damned good.).

MCM

[A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com]

On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:55:51 -0500, "Michael Mattias"

Post by Michael Mattias

Post by Auric__

Post by Ethan Winer

Post by Auric__
Any idea *how* large is it? (The whole thing.)

About 400 program files. So it's pretty big!

Holy crap! That beats the biggest GW program I ever saw by... well, a lot!

I've seen several GW-BASIC applications that large before.
Remember, you had to have a lot of program files, because you only had 32
Kb of memory to work with.... and that 32Kb had to support both CODE AND
DATA COMBINED.
Many CHAINs to other program files were required to actually do anything
productive working within that constraint. A complete accounting package?
Four hundred total program files does not sound unreasonable at all.
(Sheesh. Kids. They think we were all born with a silver spoon in our mouth
and 2 gigabytes of RAM at our fingertips).
(To answer your next question, which is "How exactly did you write all that
the simplest answer tends to be the correct answer: We were damned good.).

I started out (in about 1974) on a multi-user mini with those kind of
memory constraints. And, you had to write all your temp data to a
file during a chain, IIRC. Sometimes, a single transaction took
several chains.

[Auric__]

Post by Michael Mattias

Post by Auric__

Post by Ethan Winer

Post by Auric__
Any idea *how* large is it? (The whole thing.)

About 400 program files. So it's pretty big!

Holy crap! That beats the biggest GW program I ever saw by... well, a lot!

I've seen several GW-BASIC applications that large before.
Remember, you had to have a lot of program files, because you only had
32 Kb of memory to work with.... and that 32Kb had to support both CODE
AND DATA COMBINED.
Many CHAINs to other program files were required to actually do anything
productive working within that constraint. A complete accounting
package? Four hundred total program files does not sound unreasonable at
all.

I started "serious" programming with GWBASIC, in the mid-80's on a brand-
spanking-new 286 -- I am (well, *was*) aware of the memory & size
constraints -- but I never *personally* saw a program written in it that
anywhere near this large. (For that matter, I don't think I'd pick GW to
write an accounting package in the first place, but that's just me. QB,
perhaps, but not GW.)

Maybe it's just that I never had reason to *get* a program that big written
in GW.

Post by Michael Mattias
(Sheesh. Kids. They think we were all born with a silver spoon in our
mouth and 2 gigabytes of RAM at our fingertips).

My #1 PC "only" has 640MB. [shrug]

Post by Michael Mattias
(To answer your next question, which is "How exactly did you write all
that good stuff with those kinds of limitations?" Occam's Razor to the
rescue: the simplest answer tends to be the correct answer: We were
damned good.).

Actually, I believe that the Occam's Razor answer would be "lots of time
spent making things smaller". ;-)

[Michael Mattias]

Post by Auric__

Post by Michael Mattias
(To answer your next question, which is "How exactly did you write all
that good stuff with those kinds of limitations?" Occam's Razor to the
rescue: the simplest answer tends to be the correct answer: We were
damned good.).

Actually, I believe that the Occam's Razor answer would be "lots of time
spent making things smaller". ;-)

SSSHHHHH! Don't give away our secrets!

In addition to killing the romance inherent in Ye Good Olde Dayes, it might
give people the idea that a little hard work actually pays off and then
EVERYONE will be doing it!


MCM

[Tom Lake]

Post by Michael Mattias
Remember, you had to have a lot of program files, because you only had 32
Kb of memory to work with.... and that 32Kb had to support both CODE AND
DATA COMBINED.

GW-BASIC has just under 64K limit for code and data.

Tom Lake

[Tom Lake]

Post by Ethan Winer
Folks,
A fellow approached me looking for someone to convert his large multi-module
accounting system written in GWBASIC into something more modern. His eventual goal
is to move the programs to Windows using VB or similar, but at this point he'll be
happy to move it to QuickBASIC or PDS.
I've seen parts of the source code and it's not a mess of spaghetti code. But it's
a large project so the job requires someone who is well organized. I'm too busy to
take on a project of this size, so if anyone here is interested, email me from my
web site www.ethanwiner.com and I'll put you in touch with him.

Do you know about how much he wants to spend? A good programmer's time
isn't cheap and who'd want a bad programmer working on his/her software?

A project of this size could easily cost in the thousands of dollars.

Tom Lake

[A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com]

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:30:39 -0400, "Tom Lake"

Post by Tom Lake

Post by Ethan Winer
Folks,
A fellow approached me looking for someone to convert his large multi-module
accounting system written in GWBASIC into something more modern. His eventual goal
is to move the programs to Windows using VB or similar, but at this point he'll be
happy to move it to QuickBASIC or PDS.
I've seen parts of the source code and it's not a mess of spaghetti code. But it's
a large project so the job requires someone who is well organized. I'm too busy to
take on a project of this size, so if anyone here is interested, email me from my
web site www.ethanwiner.com and I'll put you in touch with him.

Do you know about how much he wants to spend? A good programmer's time
isn't cheap and who'd want a bad programmer working on his/her software?
A project of this size could easily cost in the thousands of dollars.

I inquired about it. Haven't heard back yet.

More likely tens of thousands of dollars based on the size.

[Michael Mattias]

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:30:39 -0400, "Tom Lake"

Post by Tom Lake

Post by Ethan Winer
Folks,
A fellow approached me looking for someone to convert his large multi-module
accounting system written in GWBASIC into something more modern. His eventual goal
is to move the programs to Windows using VB or similar, but at this point he'll be
happy to move it to QuickBASIC or PDS.
I've seen parts of the source code and it's not a mess of spaghetti code. But it's
a large project so the job requires someone who is well organized. I'm too busy to
take on a project of this size, so if anyone here is interested, email me from my
web site www.ethanwiner.com and I'll put you in touch with him.

Do you know about how much he wants to spend? A good programmer's time
isn't cheap and who'd want a bad programmer working on his/her software?
A project of this size could easily cost in the thousands of dollars.

I inquired about it. Haven't heard back yet.
More likely tens of thousands of dollars based on the size.

Excuse me, but if you are in "the business," isn't it YOUR responsibility
to cover this with the prospect?

Anyone who *is* in "the business" surely has a rough idea of the minimum
cost for a project like this, or by requesting documentation, a
demonstration and/or an installation of the software to be converted can
come up with a quotation?

You should be thankful you have a qualified lead. Do all leads turn into
sales? No. Might this prospect have an unrealistic budget for this
conversion? Sure. But dealing with this kind of thing is a fundamental skill
for those who fancy themselves either contractors or consultants.

If you are not willing and able to make one phone call to introduce yourself
and get a feel for the project and the prospect, you are not right for this
job... or any job for that matter.

[A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com]

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:28:01 -0500, "Michael Mattias"

Post by Michael Mattias

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:30:39 -0400, "Tom Lake"

Post by Tom Lake

Post by Ethan Winer
Folks,
A fellow approached me looking for someone to convert his large multi-module
accounting system written in GWBASIC into something more modern. His eventual goal
is to move the programs to Windows using VB or similar, but at this point he'll be
happy to move it to QuickBASIC or PDS.
I've seen parts of the source code and it's not a mess of spaghetti code. But it's
a large project so the job requires someone who is well organized. I'm too busy to
take on a project of this size, so if anyone here is interested, email me from my
web site www.ethanwiner.com and I'll put you in touch with him.

Do you know about how much he wants to spend? A good programmer's time
isn't cheap and who'd want a bad programmer working on his/her software?
A project of this size could easily cost in the thousands of dollars.

I inquired about it. Haven't heard back yet.
More likely tens of thousands of dollars based on the size.

Excuse me, but if you are in "the business," isn't it YOUR responsibility
to cover this with the prospect?

I will, if the prospect ever gets back to me. I will not even attempt
to give a quote until I see the whole project, unless it is absurdly
large.

<snip>

[Todd Vargo]

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:28:01 -0500, "Michael Mattias"

...

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com

Post by Michael Mattias

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com
I inquired about it. Haven't heard back yet.
More likely tens of thousands of dollars based on the size.

Excuse me, but if you are in "the business," isn't it YOUR
responsibility to cover this with the prospect?

I will, if the prospect ever gets back to me. I will not even attempt
to give a quote until I see the whole project, unless it is absurdly
large.

Lets assume the prospective client is reading this thread.
Is this a conversation you want him/her to be reading?

[A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com]

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:45:04 -0500, "Todd Vargo"

Post by Todd Vargo

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:28:01 -0500, "Michael Mattias"

...

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com

Post by Michael Mattias

Post by A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com
I inquired about it. Haven't heard back yet.
More likely tens of thousands of dollars based on the size.

Excuse me, but if you are in "the business," isn't it YOUR
responsibility to cover this with the prospect?

I will, if the prospect ever gets back to me. I will not even attempt
to give a quote until I see the whole project, unless it is absurdly
large.

Lets assume the prospective client is reading this thread.
Is this a conversation you want him/her to be reading?

I wouldn't care. I have only stated the truth.

[Tom Lake]

Post by Michael Mattias
If you are not willing and able to make one phone call to introduce
yourself and get a feel for the project and the prospect, you are not
right for this job... or any job for that matter.

Sheesh! Who pissed in your corn flakes?

Tom Lake

[Karl E. Peterson]

Post by Tom Lake

Post by Michael Mattias
If you are not willing and able to make one phone call to introduce
yourself and get a feel for the project and the prospect, you are not
right for this job... or any job for that matter.

Sheesh! Who pissed in your corn flakes?

Nah, see, he was just demonstrating the correct 'tude to take with clients. Heh...
What a joke.

[Michael Mattias]

"Tom Lake" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:7EDA2D13-3C4D-4581-B0CF-***@microsoft.com...
[MCM wrote]

Post by Tom Lake

Post by Michael Mattias
If you are not willing and able to make one phone call to introduce
yourself and get a feel for the project and the prospect, you are not
right for this job... or any job for that matter.

Sheesh! Who pissed in your corn flakes?

This is nothing new for me.

I have been ranting and raving about professionalism in the IT community -
or lack thereof - since 1981 or so.

It's just that since 1995 or so I've had the Internet as a medium.

You missed some real choice comments I had made back before then.... when I
was a CUSTOMER of so-called "consultants" and really felt I was getting
non-professional service whilst being asked to pay professional prices.

[mmivanin]

Hello,
I was making this kind of project in QB45 (with 200+) files myself, so I can
tell you this is a hell of a job. To use "chains" in so big project is not
good idea because of many reasons. Data passing should be maded in more
reliable way.

Problem will be to understand what was old program exactly do in all
details. That would take most of time.

Programs written in QB45 and results which they give is easy to use in DOS
and also with all "modern" platforms such is .NET. This mean that you could
have some machines in DOS and some machines wiht XP working with same data,
without need for converting anything. Here is also possible that part of
program can be in QB45, part in VB6 and part in .NET. I used system that DOS
can also read data which was maded in windows files. Again without any
conversion.
It is great possibility that with proper programming this project can be
significantly smaller, faster and better organized. What do you think?

Anyway, if you need more information or anything else feel free to contact me.

[mmivanin]

Hello,
I was making this kind of project in QB45 (with 200+) files myself, so I can
tell you this is a hell of a job. To use "chains" in so big project is not
good idea because of many reasons. Data passing should be maded in more
reliable way.

Problem will be to understand what was old program exactly do in all
details. That would take most of time.

Programs written in QB45 and results which they give is easy to use in DOS
and also with all "modern" platforms such is .NET. This mean that you could
have some machines in DOS and some machines wiht XP working with same data,
without need for converting anything. Here is also possible that part of
program can be in QB45, part in VB6 and part in .NET. I used system that DOS
can also read data which was maded in windows files. Again without any
conversion.
It is great possibility that with proper programming this project can be
significantly smaller, faster and better organized. What do you think?

Anyway, if you need more information or anything else feel free to contact me.

[Happy Trails]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 23:52:01 -0700, mmivanin

Post by mmivanin
Hello,
I was making this kind of project in QB45 (with 200+) files myself, so I can
tell you this is a hell of a job. To use "chains" in so big project is not
good idea because of many reasons. Data passing should be maded in more
reliable way.

The OP did not say the programs/system did any chaining.

That possibility was introduced by Michael Mattias, and afaik was not
confirmed by anyone with actual knowledge of the project.

[A. David Garza Marín]

"Ethan Winer" <ethanw at ethanwiner dot com> escribió en el mensaje de

Post by Ethan Winer
I've seen parts of the source code and it's not a mess of spaghetti code.
But it's a large project so the job requires someone who is well
organized. I'm too busy to take on a project of this size, so if anyone
here is interested, email me from my web site www.ethanwiner.com and I'll
put you in touch with him.

Hi, Ethan.

I think that much of the 400 modules is the plumbing code to create the
interface. Maybe that code could be reduced if VB-DOS is used. I'll se if I
can be selected for this project.

Even if it has to be done in QuickBasic, could be very well done with some
of my window-creation libraries. :)